<Debbie D> I have a friend in our band who has

    written some really good songs, and he focuses

    more on the melody/chords

<Debbie D> hi seth

<Brink> In fact each word has it's own natural

    rhythm

<Debbie D> yes

<Brink> Hey Seth....long time no see.  Hope you are good

> Hi Everyone.  Doing well!

<Brink> good to find someone who can help

<Brink> Seth have you had any luck since last we talked?

<Brink> Love to hear them success stories

<Brink> :)

> I've been writing a lot but I haven't been pitching at all.

> Getting ready to put everything on CD so I can send them out

<Brink> Now is a pretty good time to be pitching

<Brink> kewl

<Brink> Are you doing your own demos?

<Brink> Debbie have you demoed any of your songs yet?

> Rick Lang has offered to let me do  them at his studio.

<Debbie D> no, I'd like to know how to do that, what's the best approach

<Brink> great!

<Debbie D> I've recorded some stuff here at the house

    with my computer and a couple of mics

<Brink> what kind of music do you write and where

   do you see your "market"?

<Debbie D> me?

<Brink> yes

<Debbie D> A lot of gospel, but not exclusively. Not strictly bluegrass but more like americana I guess

<Brink> I see

<Debbie D> and I wrote one song that I think could be a veggietales song...

<Brink> Americana is quite open and growing right now

<Brink> And the artists are quite accessible

<Debbie D> ok. I went to IBMA for the first time this year, was wondering if the americana conference would be better

<Brink> Were you there for the entire week at IBMA?

<Debbie D> I left Friday morning, but I was there for the business conference

<Brink> Debbie it really depends on where your music best fits in

<Brink> I see

[Tue Dec 13 20:10:21 CST 2005] Scott

<Brink> Hey Scott

<Brink> welcome

<Scott> Hi there

<Brink> Scott, where are you from?

<Scott> Bowdoinham,maine

<Debbie D> it's probably cold there too. hi!

> Hi Scott

<Brink> I'm sure

<Brink> Has anyone pitched any songs lately?

<Scott> Hi Debbie,no 72+/-

<Debbie D> you must be inside?

<Scott> yes,,

<Debbie D> :)

<Brink> LOL

> Brink, have you been pitching any new songs.

<Debbie D> tell me about pitcing songs...

<Debbie D> pitching. sorry

<Brink> I pitched 15 songs at IBMA this year on my yearly "sampler"

<Brink> Nashville was a good place for pitching

> That's great.

<Brink> I liked it

<Debbie D> so you brought a CD with you to hand out?

<Brink> Every IBMA I bring about 150 CD's to hand out to artists/bands

<Debbie D> ok

<Brink> Of the 15 songs I had on the sampler 7 have been picked up already :)

<Debbie D> do you have them professionally pressed?

<Brink> No, I do them myself

<Scott> How many IBMA`s have you gone too Brink?\

<Debbie D> ok. good to know :)

<Brink> doesn't take too long really

<Brink> probably about 7 or 8

<Brink> Been pitching seriously for the last 5

<Debbie D> do you have any situations where a song is picked up by more than one group/performer?

<Brink> yes and sometimes more

<Brink> It does get a little "sticky" sometimes when more than one band wants a song

<Brink> some of the bigger artists want and "exclusive" cut on the tune

<Debbie D> ok. do they pay more for that?

<Brink> no

<Scott> So ,are they stripped down to guitar/voc w/o much in the way of intro & instr breaks?

<Brink> I pitch songs 95% of the time with just vocal and guitar

<Brink> I don't put in any intros or breaks

> I think that is better because the artists can imagine there own intros & breaks just the way they want them.

<Debbie D> do you ever co-write with anyone?

<Brink> A pro band will listen to 1,000+  songs.  They don't have the time and they are just listening for the "MEAT" of the song

<Brink> lyrics, melody and chord structure

<Scott> makes sense

<Debbie D> ok this is good to know.

<Brink> if a song is KILLER with just guitar and vocal it can only get better with a pro arrangement

<Brink> Now, the key is that it STILL must be a QUALITY demo

<Scott> do you use pro tools?\

<Brink> Excellent recording quality....excellent vocals....lyrics up front and strong etc

<Brink> I use a Roland 1824VS

<Brink> With AT4033's

<Brink> I try to be objective about my own ability.  If I don't think I can do a quality job on a song myself I get someone else to sing or play

<Debbie D> ok that's good to know too.

<Debbie D> on the CDs you make, do you put the lyrics in a word document also?

<Brink> I can't tell you how many times artists have told me they love my demos because it gets right to the point and everything is up front and there for them to hear

> How do you decide who to pitch a song too?

<Brink> I do both Debbie.  I print out the lyric sheets and I also include WORD file right on the CD so the artists can print everyone a copy in the studio

<Debbie D> so you bundle the printed lyrics with the CD?

<Brink> My IBMA demo sampler is not directed at any one group so I included across the board

<Brink> Debbie yes I do

<Scott> Is IBMA your primary pitching ground or do festivals work for you as well?

<Brink> I am ALWAYS, ALWAYS pitching :)

<Brink> IBMA is one of the best times to do it as most folks record over the winter

<Scott> ahhhyes

<Debbie D> good point.

<Brink> I network w/ as many artists as I can and my first question is "are you recording soon" if not "when"??

<Brink> Then I record the date that are planning on recording and get contact info.

<Brink> I contact the artist ahead of time and ask what the needs are and custon burn a CD for the project

<Debbie D> so you sort of pre-select the songs based on the artist in that case?

<Brink> yes in that case I do

<Brink> I try to exactly match what they are looking for

<Brink> upbeat, ballad, story song, etc

<Debbie D> so you have to be familiar with their style & such. that's good

<Brink> It helps to know your clients :)

<Debbie D> yeah. well I spent a lot of years listening before I started writing stuff down. sometimes when I write I have someone in mind

<Brink> I have to also be sure the songs I send are STRONG

<Brink> otherwise they'll stop asking

<Debbie D> true. do you have a day job? how much time/week do you spend writing?

[Tue Dec 13 20:29:10 CST 2005] Larry

<Brink> remember I write bluegrass/Americana ......you can make 10's of dollars LOLOL

<Brink> hey Larry

<Brink> I write everyday

<Larry> Hey Brink

<Brink> how bout everyone else?

<Debbie D> ok thanks

<Brink> do y'all write everyday?

<Brink> when the spirit moves?

> I try to write everyday.  I'm always thinking  about it.

<Debbie D> I don't write enough. my best lines come in the shower, sometimes I write them down before they go away

<Scott> Everyday,...

<Larry> My trouble is the melodies

<Larry> words come easier but the tunes are hard

<Brink> me too Seth

<Brink> It is hard to keep tunes simple but fresh

<Brink> Larry , where are you from?

> I like to let the words write the tune.

<Larry> You know me

<Larry> Mass

<Scott> Yeh seth,

<Brink> Freewheelin Larry???

<Larry> yep

<Brink> hey man....good to see ya

<Scott> Hi Larry ,tell Earl Scott Conley (guitars) says hello

<Larry> How do you come up with some of the ideas ie I know you are not a coal miner

<Brink> I put myself in situations and then try to learn about it

<Brink> I studied and read about coal miners etc.  very interesting

<Brink> Then I write from emotion

<Brink> Try to put things in a way that says something common but in a unique way

<Larry> Seth you have written some great stuff also

<Larry> like engineer

<Brink> Dwight McCall just cut a song of mine called West Virginia Ground

[Tue Dec 13 20:36:47 CST 2005] Thea Hopkins

<Brink> in the song I could have said everyone here worked in the mines

> When I wrote that one I actually met the guy and I tried to imagine what his life must have been like.

<Brink> but I said.  Grandpa built a cabin here in 1869...the branches of our family tree grows straight down through the mine

<Brink> seth...that's it EXACTLY

> great line

<Debbie D> cool -- you guys are describing what I'm trying to do.

<Larry> my songs seem to be more like histories than imagined

<Brink> that is what make the difference between a "good" song and a "great" song IMHO

<Larry> good tips

<Larry> how did you come up with the tune about the little girl that passed away?

<Larry> was that  a real story

<Brink> I also LOVE lyrics that are very "VISUAL"

<Brink> You can almost see and feel it

<Brink> Larry ...you talking to me?

<Larry> yes

<Brink> you mean the song "Littlest Guardian Angel"?

<Larry> yes

<Brink> That one unfortunately is personal experience

<Brink> We lost a daughter in 1985

<Brink> Took me 6 years to write that one

<Scott> sorry to hear that.

<Brink> And then another several to make it "universal"

<Debbie D> wow. sorry. nothing can make that better...

<Brink> As songwriter's you really have to bare your soul

<Brink> just the way it is

<Brink> I love the song

<Brink> :)

<Larry> me too

<Brink> Gary Ferguson sang it at a funeral about a year ago.  funeral for a 10 yr old girl.

<Brink> Now that still makes me chill up

<Larry> that is the most REAL song I have ever heard

<Debbie D> yeah. but that's what songs are for, to express emotions

<Debbie D> that are hard to talk about

<Brink> thing is...a songwriter IMHO has to dig deep and say things that other folks think about but are afraid to say

<Larry> do you guys write in one sitting or does it take several attempts"

<Brink> oh my....I have a stack of close to 80 songs in various stages of "done"

> Brink, If you write a song in the Spring or Summer do you wait to pitch it until the Fall or Winter time since that is when bands record?

<Brink> LOLOL

<Brink> Seth, I pitch a song anytime I think the song is ready

<Brink> I to sing a song for a few weeks to let the dust settle before I pitch a song

<Larry> how would a

> I have a stack too that I go back to.  I find a line that I wrote two years ago that will open  up for me.

<Brink> I need to make sure it is the best it can be and as good as I think it is

<Brink> Yes that happens to me to Seth

<Larry> how would a newbie pitch to an established band

<Brink> Larry, it is harder but if you network right and believe in the song I would approach the band but only with one or two songs

<Brink> Heck, you know lots of pickers....when you get a good one...throw it at em :)

<Brink> sometimes if you have really good material and just starting out you may want to have a publisher pitch it for you

> What about when you have a record label like Rounder that has there own publishing company, do you still pitch to the artist?

<Brink> someone that can get the songs to the bands and from someone they would listen to

<Brink> ABSOLUTELY

<Larry> Do you write and hear a certain band doing it and pitch it to them

<Brink> Most labels have their own publishing.  They publish for writer's that don't have a publisher and need the service

<Brink> I write the best song I can write and then sort out who it might fit later

<Brink> Thea...where are you from?

<Brink> Larry how many tunes to you have?

<Larry> about half dozen

<Larry> they were written with specific band sounds in mind

<Brink> that works for some folks but I've never been good at that

<Thea Hopkins> I am from Boston. This is the first time I have sat in on this group.

<Brink> welcome :)

<Larry> Thea, do you sing with your sister Merideth?

<Brink> Seth you got the east coast folks out in force :)

> Candi is the one that gets the word out.

<Thea Hopkins> <Thea> No, I think you sre confusing me with someone else.

<Larry> sorry

<Thea Hopkins> <Thea> That's OK.

<Brink> So Seth are you going w/ full blown demos or guitar vocal?

> Just guitar and vocal.  You taught me that--I think you're right.  Let the bands decide.

<Thea Hopkins> <Thea> I love what you all have had to say about the importance of visual lyrics.

<Brink> good man :)

<Scott> just a note: a GREAT book on the subject is `The Craft and Bussiness of Songwriting` byJohn Braheny..mostly the bussiness chapters for us `bluegrassers`

<Brink> another example is in the song I wrote "Bluestone Mountain"

<Brink> yeah...the Braheny book is tops

<Brink> A little boy and his mother wander into the caves of west virginia

<Thea Hopkins> <Thea> What do you guys think of Sheila Davis's books?

<Brink> how do you describe the caves of west virginia in a visual way w/ impact

<Brink> Here is my line:   The caves of West Virginia run forever...like a maze of black ribbon through the ground"

<Larry> have you ever been in the caves

> cold and dark with no beginning and no end

<Brink> caves scare me to death

<Brink> hehe

<Debbie D> hey I googled John Braheny

<Debbie D> on his website he mentions something called "songposium"

<Brink> When I taught songwriting at Nashcamp this summer I used the Braheny book as a base

<Scott> cold dark ground where up is really down....

<Debbie D> It's going to be held in Nashville the same week as IBMA next year

<Larry> but when you sing it, it sounds convincing like you've been there

<Brink> kewl...maybe have to check that out

[Tue Dec 13 20:59:45 CST 2005] Mike Burns

<Brink> hey MIKE!!! how's NY?

<Larry> Hey Mike

<Scott> ` Songwriters Market ` is another nobrainer

<Scott> Hi MIke.

<Larry> type faster,. Mike

<Larry> Brink are you going to SPBGMA?

<Brink> I'm playing that by ear

<Brink> depends on $$$$

<Brink> how bout you?

<Larry> yes we are going

<Brink> I need a pile of royalties to show up before then

<Brink> kewl....it is about 50/50 for me

<Larry> You'll get another check from us soon as wer RE-recorded Caroline

<Larry> actually RE-RE

<Brink> kewl....I'm all for that Larry

<Brink> LOLOL

<Brink> how is Earl and the others?

<Larry> Everyone is fine

<Brink> I was lucky and have had 13 or 14 releases this year so that helps

<Scott> Hows John Roc,larry?

> Congratulations, that's GREAT!!!

<Brink> Have about 8 or 9 more coming out early next year

<Larry> John had quad-druple bypass and 3 stints put in

<Brink> WOW..that doesnt' sound good

<Scott> Yikes!

[Tue Dec 13 21:05:25 CST 2005] mike burns

<Brink> mike...you been writing a lot?

<Larry> Seth, how many of yours are recorded?

> 7

<Brink> that's great Seth!!!

> I feel very fortunate.

<Brink> you have some fine songs...you deserve it man

> It means a lot coming from you.

<Larry> what's it mean coming from me?

<Brink> love to hear some of your new stuff

<Brink> LOLOL

<Larry> Seth you wrote a song about a gravestone ( I'm horrible with titles)

> I'd love to sit down with you and play them for you but as soon as I get over Rick's studio to record them I'll send them to you.

<Debbie D> Seth, were the Gibson Brothers the first ones to record a song of yours?

<Larry> did you do anything with that one

<Brink> that'd be kewl

> Yes.

> Larry, It's called "Pennies On A Gravestone"

<Larry> that's the one

> I haven't pitched it yet.

<Larry> It's Killer

<Brink> kewl title

<Larry> Maybe you

<Larry> have covered it but

<Larry> how do you get

<Larry> stuff published

[Tue Dec 13 21:12:42 CST 2005] Linda Magoon

<Brink> hey Linda

<Linda Magoon> Hey Brink,

<Brink> Larry there are several ways to do the publishing

<Brink> Sometimes you can just do an "admistrative" agreement

<Brink> A fee to do the paperwork for you

<Brink> most labels have a publishing co and can do it for you as well

<Brink> Or you can form your own publishing Co.

[Tue Dec 13 21:14:30 CST 2005] Mike Burns

<Mike Burns> hey everyone good to read whats going on

<Brink> you writing much Mike?

<Brink> I'm about giving up on Merlefest >LOL

<Mike Burns> after my last time i might be agraid of going there s

<Scott> Whats the songwriter comp at Merlfest like?

<Mike Burns> actually i think it is great four tickets ,backstage passes

<Brink> 4 days of hotel

<Brink> or 5

<Brink> can't remember

<Scott> really?..

<Brink> I'm 3 and 0

<Brink> Made three finals and never won

<Brink> got 2-2nds and one 3rd place

<Brink> LOL

<Brink> perpetual loser...thats me

<Mike Burns> and a whole lot of music

<Debbie D> do you recommend contests for someone starting out?

<Linda Magoon> Sounds like fodder for a song!

<Debbie D> what are the pros and cons of contests?

<Brink> I am not a contest person...I just wanted the free hotel and tickets

<Scott> hehehe

<Brink> cons are that I've never known a contest to really help get a "cut"

<Brink> not sure about the "pros"

<Scott> sign me UP...free..ahhhhhhh

<Mike Burns> mike   I liked goingto merlefest ,just didn't like comomg in 3rd all the time

<Debbie D> isn't that just a set of strings for the prize?

<Debbie D> and the chance to be there, I guess

<Brink> I remember 2nd place was $250 and a case of strings

<Mike Burns> mike and free sudscript to acoustic magazine

<Brink> But the hotel  and passes added up to about $1,500 with the food etc

<Brink> yeah...you and I have a lifetime subscription to Acoustic Guitar Mag

<Brink> LOLOL

<Scott> MMMM free food..ahhh(homer s)

<Mike Burns> mike I think it is wirth going down, and i wold like to go again if they would like one of my songs

<Brink> yeah....Merlefest is a blast.  I enjoyed my times there

<Mike Burns> mike is jim lauderdale still chairman

<Brink> Funny thing Mike....the last 2 years I've entered 8 songs in the Merlefest contest and not made the finals the last 2 years

<Brink> All 8 songs I've submitted have been recorded by major bluegrass bands...so...go figure..LOLOL

<Brink> Says a little something about the judging I suppose

<Brink> :)

<Larry> Which songs have you submitted?

<Mike Burns> mike i entered what I thought were two good songs and i guess they wern't good enough but I had been there twice

<Brink> Caroline In Carolina, Tennessee Backroads, Beyond the Rain, West Virginia Ground, I Beg You Little Darlin' Not To Cry", Their Father's Land

<Brink> can't remember the other ones

<Debbie D> so you never get any feed back about what you submitted, I guess?

<Brink> nope

<Larry> Are they looking for more "commercial" sounding songs?!?!?

<Brink> don't have a clue

<Larry> Can't get much more bluegrass than those

<Brink> I would figure in the "Bluegrass" category they'd be looking for "bluegrass songs"

<Scott> Ever Done Keryyville?

<Brink> nope...just Merlefest

<Brink> I hate contests

<Mike Burns> brink you are the man , i'll keep my fingers crossed and hope somefay i will get some more recorded ,I have to admit ,I have not been sending many

   songs out

<Brink> you have some fine stuff Mike.

<Brink> Well I better head out.  Good chatting with you and sorry Rick couldn't make it.  HOpe he feels better.

<Brink> I'm not much of a host..LOLOL

<Mike Burns> mike just been banging a whole lot of nails lately ,i am going to actually have counter tops by this christamas i

<Larry> NO but you are cute

<Brink> hehe...that ain't gonna get songs cut man...LOL

<Debbie D> Thanks for hosting Brink, and thanks for answering my newbie questions

<Scott> Thanks for it anyways Brink

<Mike Burns> take care brink   happy holidyas

> Brink, Candi and I really appreciate you filling in for rick tonight.  It's been a great CHAT Session!!!

> Happy Holidays Everyone

<Larry> Brink, IMHO you are the best bluegrass writter today

<Brink> Gotta go work on a new tune I just started today :)

<Brink> thanks Larry....I'm tryin real hard

<Brink> :)

<Scott> Gotta go make guitars...

<Brink> maybe see you at spigma

<Brink> nite everyone

<Larry> Merry Christmas to all and to all..........................

<Mike Burns> right back at you larry